Today I'm in person in Venice with my friend and neighbor Will Bumpus from Concrete Rose.  Thank you for walking across the street to be here.

Will is one of the partners at Concrete Rose, a seed and Series A fund dedicated to closing the wealth and opportunity gap that exists for people of color. Before Concrete Rose, Will was chief of staff at Headspace. He was in Corp dev at Guangxi and heading business operation activities at Activision.

I'd love to start with concrete roads. You guys have grown really quickly and I’d love to hear about the genesis and the opportunity that you guys saw.

Yeah, like you were saying, our vision and mission is how do we create a virtuous cycle of wealth and opportunity for underrepresented communities of color. And so, one of the biggest forms of wealth creation that we think is gonna happen, at least in the US, is through tech and entrepreneurship.

And so we did fund one in 2020, which was a 25 million, fund. It really was supposed to be a proof of concept. And then what happens is, you know, events of, of 2020 happen and we're able to, grow to 25 million fund one. And it's been, , off to the races ever since we're we're right now, the races ever since where, where right now, , in the process of, of closing fun too, and And with this fund, we are looking to lead. And so writing, you know, anywhere from one to $2 million checks at the pre preceded and seed level.

Um, congratulations. It's exciting. And fun one. Do you have a unicorn in there already?

, we're very happy about this. It's a, a company called a

Susu And we were one of the first institutional checks into the company and that was at the seed stage. And earlier this year, they raised, uh, at a billion dollar valuation, which. very

very

exciting Um very

But, you know, we like a Susu, not just because of

the

performance Abby is the exact founder that we're looking to back. And the problem that he is going after is , how do people of color and immigrants build credit in the us when they're coming here and one of their largest expenses, their rental payments just kind of go into the ether

And so what a Susu does is partners with all the big, credit unions. And every time you're making a rental payment and in a Susu property that goes to not only building your credit score, but they offer non predatory products to help you pay your rent. And, you know, it's a win, win, win for everybody.

The landlord gets happy, tenants and higher retention. The tenants obviously are building their credit along the way in Susu is, getting customers left and right. Well, that seems like an awesome investment. Um, so beyond super fast unicorns, how do you describe what you're investing in?

So we have three main focus areas, so focus area. One is investing directly into ethnically underrepresented founders and we say specifically black and Latino for now. , and then the, the second area is investing into products and services. That meet the needs of underrepresented consumers.

 we have a third focus area. That's , a little bit different , from some of the funds that, have the same vision and mission we'll invest in anybody regardless of their background and provide them with coaching on how to build diversity, equity inclusion early into the company.

So

those founders, they one need to have a demonstrated commitment to building D E and I early,

And you know, when they have that demonstrated commitment, we provide access to a talent pipeline of diverse candidates. So that way, you know, I feel like back when I was first starting my career, there was always the excuse.

We just don't know

anybody or there's not a lot of there's not a pipeline So we take that completely off the table with, roughly 6,000 candidates

So when I was an operator and trying to scale companies, I'm not gonna say diversity was easy, but actually I thought inclusion was harder How do you, when you think about coaching, how do you think about coaching for, uh, inclusion?

Yeah. I think, you know, like a very important thing to me is this feeling of being seen. And so what we want to do is coach founders into saying like, look, I see you no matter who you are as like a, background, you know, if you were at a blue chip company, if you went to such and such school, if you you know, whatever you did, it doesn't matter.

Like I see you as an employee and a valued team member of this business and a part of our vision and mission.

So let's say that companies start to get this and let's project into the future when concrete rows and others, like you are super successful.

How do you think our society starts to change? Or how do you think things just start to look different

Yeah. I mean, this is, uh, the deepest of deep

questions I've been toying with this, , idea of what is sort of that infinite mindset of like it we're, it's always changing. We're always sort of moving the goal line to like, get more, , and we would always say, oh, we want to close the racial wealth gap.

Closing the racial wealth gap is sort of like this finite thing. Like, is it closed? Is it ever closed? Like how do you define that? And so this idea of like continuously building wealth and opportunity with our founders is something to us that think we're constantly doing that. We're always gonna be doing that.

And that's something that, you know, , we're gonna say as a, success, as long as we're able , to continue to build.

 Yeah, it reminds me of people making a new year's resolution to lose weight. but really what the professionals would say is you can't make a resolution to lose weight. You can make a resolution to exercise your ass five days a week. I'm not sure if that analogy exactly works, but talk to me more about how you're bringing social capital to the founders and the companies that you're investing in.

Yeah. So the, social capital piece , is one where a lot of the founders that we're investing in are, first time founders.

Again, they don't, they don't have that same kind of network. the social capital is what's gonna make these companies a success, , when you have people in your corner who are giving you advice, giving you customer introductions, who have your company top of mind when they're thinking of on different boards and things like that, , it makes a difference.

So big thing you guys have done is. Not only opened your network, but like created this huge extensive network that you're pairing your founders with. Right?

 Correct. , this is one of the things that I think , we've talked aboutreally just amazing, , founders, operators, CEOs, athletes, who are a part of the network, operationalizing the network is one of the hardest things

 So I do think a lot of funds are trying to do this and like, how do you connect someone and then make sure it's not just sort of a repetitive, here's an update, but actually, how do I

engage

well yeah or

go to the same people all the time. It's like, how do you, how do you, you know, so many people have, have committed their time. How do you make sure that you're using the network and leveraging the network , in the right

way Yeah. And

so we, we often think about that, um, too.

oh my God, I, we saw each other last night. Like I go to events now and I meet new people and I'm like, let me put you in my CRM.

right.

Exactly

Let me tag you You like sustainability? well, uh, let's, let's go there actually, since I started too, which

is, so tell me a little about what you in particular are focused on investment wise.

Yeah. So we're generalists, um, across the board, The partners now are starting to develop their own investment themes and industries that we're focusing on. You know, we have Jason, who's very much focused on consumer and definitely sport. Sean is more on like ed tech and health and wellness.

Ian's on, , financial inclusion, FinTech, , and denies mostly on HR tech. And then for me, I'm, very much focused on sustainability, , specifically the circular economy and then also just the general future of food and how we consume, how we grow, how we, you know, store and transport.

Yeah. Do you have, I mean, we are at the same thing, , and Suster was talking about it's the end of globalization.

What is the future of food?

Well,

if you could summarize for

I I got I definitely don't don't have the answers but this, the it's the one area where I'm probably the most curious.

And so I do look at, , a lot of like the indoor

farming and

sort of vertical farming, , companies that are out there, uh, well, outside of, our range, but the, company that's actually building in Compton right now, plenty I'm really excited about , it's one of the largest indoor vertical farming, huh?

Facilities. very much focus on how does that food not just go to the, you know, Beverly Hills and Bel air areas. It's like, no. How does that stay in and around Compton? How do they employ people around Compton?

So just excited by things like that.

Yeah.

 And then just , in terms of the circular economy, , unbiased, cuz of some of , the nonprofit work I do around that, but we also have a company in the portfolio called Reley where they're very much focused on all of these larger companies.

So much inventory and they don't really know what to do with

it. Yeah. And

so how can Reley through their asset exchange manager, help companies manage and efficiently and effectively use all of that excess.

Then these are excess, like chairs and stuff. I think I went to your

office Right.

And it was like,

you were like, look at this

chair

Yeah So, very much, bullish on those two areas, future of food and circular economy. But there's so many others that we're looking at

too Mm-hmm

okay. So each of you has some areas of focus. What about personalities? Are you the analytic one? Are you the optimistic one? Yeah I Ian is definitely the analytic one.

there's there's

there's no no question about that. Um, so one of, one of my focuses is the concrete rose network. And so, you know, one of the, like the unofficial values for, us is that relationships matter. And so I'm definitely the one who's trying to build the different relationships.

Other VCs in the ecosystem with founders with just the broader tech community is the thing that like, I'm really trying to push forward. So yeah, , I guess, gosh, if you, if you have to go like that, I mean, uh, deny is definitely the thoughtful one. Sean is the, visionary and Jason is the balanced one.

And so I don't know. I've never been a part of a company where we were writing the vision in mission of

the company So to be able to do that with a team. Get so much alignment around that and have so much kind of clarity of what you're trying to do. I do think has, has allowed us to gel in, a pretty cool way. And for the most part over COVID

Yeah

so I mean, I love this notion that you guys yeah. Get to write the vision together. but take me, let's go back on you. let's start with like more of give me some of your background.

I'm fascinated by the fact that you went to China. I have no idea why you

went

to China and have a lot of your career in

China. Yeah. Um so , pick me up wherever.

Yeah. So I guess I started in investment banking, so I was at a boutique bank uh , was an analyst there in New York. And look, I wasn't a finance major, but had taken all the finance courses. but I always knew that , that would place some threat in my life.

And what I learned pretty quickly though, that at least as on like the M and a advisory side, you don't have any skin in the game, , in terms of like the investment or equity in, terms of whether these transactions succeed or fail. I was building out. Models that were five years into the future.

And, and and then you would just never know, is that right wrong? Or, what

can I give you what Spencer Rascoff says? Yeah,

he says doing M and a at bank, cuz that's also how he began. He's like, it's like hearing a joke and not getting the

punchline

Uh that's That is that I'm stealing that

and it's it's a and that's absolutely right. And you know, I learned a ton. I , can be pretty quick around a spreadsheet and, and get a deck together. But, , the main thing for me was this just wasn't where I wanted to spend, spend my time.

And, uh, one of my majors in undergrad was Manda in Chinese. And so I'd studied abroad. I'd taken it for most of the time when I was in college. And I didn't use it at all in banking And so after, you know, doing two years, I said, what do I really want to do is I want to, learn about a different culture.

I wanna learn about a different way of doing business and I definitely don't wanna lose my Mandarin. And so, um, a lot of the guidance I got was if you wanna work in China, you need to be in China already. And so, I took that guidance to heart.

I like almost gave my mom a proverbial heart attack

and just said,

I'm moving to China without a job and am gonna, you know, network my way around. It was fortunate enough to end up at Guanche, which is a startup there similar to like a Foursquare type.

And was able to get, , company side experience of raising capital.

Like I I was the, the point person for raising our first round of funding from investors, both in China, Singapore, and then also in, in the bay area. so first off, I mean, it's just bold to go there without a job. But like, uh, what is the us like 14% black or

something?

What like? Uh, yeah.

Point

Yeah

0, 0 1

4 I

mean I'm curious about that

, so it, it's an interesting experience I encourage just about everybody to least have some experience abroad. Doesn't have to be China. It could be anywhere, but , one of the unique things about being a black man in China, I was American first, before I was black, which is never experienced that growing up in, you know, the east coast, like you are, you are black American, you are, but you are very distinctly, , you know, seen by your race.

When I was over there, a lot of people would say, oh, it's Dwayne Wade. Like, oh, it's, you know, Obama. And like, that's like, please mistake me for that.

Like,

I I'm, I'm okay with that. And there's no, mal intent. Like, it's, it very much is just the one that's their lens to the

world which I think is, fair to say.

And then, it's also, it's there's nothing that is putting you down in that sense, which I feel like in the us, you are constantly on your heels of. I have to work twice as hard. You know, I can't have a misstep. Like everything that I do has to be perfection or else not only is that gonna be bad for me, it's gonna be bad for people who are, you know, behind me.

And so , to be over there was, it was this weird thing that I, I still have not been able to, fully, , crystallize, but I felt in a way freer there than I, than I do here, which might be like , a tough thing to say. But, um, and then, you know, we're now in this, space , of gun control and things like that, just in terms of feeling safe, I felt so much safer

there

cuz of you know, that no matter what happens, , there's such regulation around, that, you're not gonna be running, , in that same way.

 I mean, I am kind of curious about your experience in the us just feeling safe or not safe. I mean, we've had all sorts of upheavals even sort of in our neighborhood, right.

I mean,

it's pretty close to home and yeah Well I

mean like take, , even taking it back to the, fund stuff too, like , when the events George Floyd happen and you know, his murder happened, what we were experiencing as investors was all of a sudden, this increased, like now we're being seen

and it's like, are we being seen for the right reasons or on reasons that's a different debate, but this, this huge, huge microscope on, the work that we were doing.

And what we had to do as a, partnership is find who are the authentic people that we wanna partner with. How do we navigate this environ? In a way, but then also, still make sure that we're having our, our outlets. I feel like I didn't even, wasn't able to process the uh the events for, for months, , this is gonna be such a tangent

story But but when you start hearing about just like, , there would be people that, I would work with and I would hear about their, commutes and their commutes being like two hours long, but it's like, , they show up at work and they're fine.

And they get home and in time to see their, kids, see their family, whatever it is. As I relate that to, to sort of like, you know, , this black tax it's like, I'll speak for myself.

Like I am constantly thinking about what is that balance of. You don't want to be perceived as, you know, too angry because you're, trying to process what's going on. You also don't want to be perceived as like, oh, I'm just sort of like, you know, business as usual and it's perfectly fine, but you're, constantly doing this dance and having this balance of, you know, living in a world where , the numbers show like , you are getting a fraction of a percent of what the larger pie is.

Mm-hmm

and, but you still have to do your job. You still have to invest in the same way and you still have to succeed. And, you know, it's, something that, I think that, you know, I welcome that challenge. I, actually think it's the purpose of what, why concrete rose exists, but, , it's a real one.

Yeah. Do you think things have changed a fair amount? I mean, I, being female in tech has actually changed a lot since me too, really?

Um yeah. Do you feel a real difference?

Uh, getting better, but far from where we far I mean, very, very, very far from where we need to be in the sense that, , you know, the overall dollars might have increased to go to, black and brown founders, but I think it actually decreased proportional to the amount of dollars that have gone to VC.

So it's it's a hard question to answer. And I don't even, wanna speak to like the emotion or feeling of it, but, you know, we could still be in spaces where you could be the only woman you could still be in spaces where I'm the only black, person.

And so in that regard, , we need more people who are in the space who are writing checks, who are starting companies. And I think that that's, one of , those metrics that still often feel, not represented.

Mm. I mean, I, uh, in my introductions, I usually don't include where people went to

school but

I almost put in that you went to GSB

because it's like adds more legitimacy.

right? Which is like a weird thing

that I was

having that thought in my

head

Yeah which is, which is, uh,

Which is, which is, wild. And like, for, even for us, in terms of our portfolio, you know, , it might be because of the focus areas, but 80% of the companies we invest in are outside of the bay area.

Like we want to find, founders and companies that are not just meeting the needs of, the bay area. We wanna find ones that are, addressing a larger, pool.

well, let's stay on culture, but maybe, maybe lighter a little

bit. Um,

you know, I'm curious about being, I'm going back to

Gushi Okay. So I'm curious about being in a totally different culture.

and sort of you then move from Guang as I understand, to act

division but stayed in China.

Yep.

Yeah So

like now you went or in a us company, like tell me about cultural changes there and, you know, call of duty is very different than

Headspace.

So just keep

going

the, your cultural

Yeah So, I mean, I definitely think, I've been on the journey of finding the things that are most aligned with, who I am and what I want to do. I think investment banking, you know, what I took out of that was the finance element. Like one, there is just so much money in this world, definitely in this, country that's moving around.

And what you learn is that. Not everyone has the same access to it and has the same opportunity to it. What I got in, China was not only just like this idea of like, business building from the ground up because.

At with Guanche, you know, I was one of the, I think I was like the fifth person and then the second non-US person to, join. And so it was the type of thing where I'm learning, not only, you know, how to build a business, but build a business from the ground up, like setting up the entities for the, , the organization.

And then with, Activision, this idea of building something that is, you know, has done extremely well in the us and bringing that to a new market and, sort of taking a model and adapting it , to a market like what's big here in the us are console games.

, you know, there's a big release. It's 60 bucks in usually October or November in China. You just can't, do that. You can't have a definitely can't have that price point and you consoles were actually banned for the longest time when I was there. So, what we did was adapt to the game to be like a free to play PC game, which is just more on the micro transaction space, which now it's, it's perfectly normal with the candy crushes of the world and all the mobile games, like everything is a micro transaction, but at the time it was, very early.

And so a lot of those learnings that we had in China, then we actually were able to cycle back to the us and start to add in all these , different features there. , but I guess one, interesting anecdote when you were saying I moved from Guanche to, , to act division, I actually was interviewing with my Chinese name, which is by way to, and so I did have some calls in Mandarin and they were quite shocked when I walk in to, to the office

and by way to is, is, will Bumpus.

And , that was a very different, different thing, but, you know, it was pretty funny where some of the, , engineers. It were, their facial expression was, was very shocked.

Did they know? They knew you were American?

Yeah. Yeah. But but,

uh, Jeff might kill me, but I don't think I was on LinkedIn at the time or LinkedIn wasn't , in China. So there wasn't any kind of social media , to show, who I was.

So it was it was that was it's one of those memories that, that I thought was, that was really cool in

China Just

Obama's

here.

Um, that's amazing. Are there any trends from China that really stood out or you think that we will be seeing here in the us soon?

yeah I think so one of the biggest ones for me was, was always WeChat and messaging. Was we shin, but the, just like the way that, , everything flowed through the communication app and what I, what I found. , so new to me at the time was, was doing business on WeChat, was talking to friends on WeChat, was, you know, ordering cars on WeChat, paying on WeChat.

All of that was well before any of the apple

pay before Uber was really that, that large here. And it was just to me, it was. , you can have this central thing, but it's always gonna be around communication. but one of the, larger sentiments, , when I was, there was always like us was always so worried that China was gonna copy

something I

think I do think that that's starting to shift and start to, have a little bit more of a, a 50 50 thing where. You know, we're looking at, bite dance and Tencent and some of these others and saying like, Hey, let's bring that to the us or let's figure out how to, do this version of that.

So,

yeah. . And then you decide, move back to the us. How did what go

 So after we, we launched the game, we were thinking about, you know, should we bring this to different markets? And so came back to the us to work on the strategy of, you know, is it Brazil next? Is it, you know, some other, , territories next? And you know, what I lost from a lot of that is that the China element, like that's what was so exciting to me and being able to speak Mandarin and travel.

 And so it was, you know, shortly after came back to the us was working at a headquarters for a bit, but then went to business school. , and it was in business school where I was like, okay, I know I want to go into venture.

But the guidance that I got from a lot of that was what makes a good investor is having operating experience or product experience. , and I knew I wanted to be at a, a mission driven company, so not, you know, explicitly impact, but something that is, you know, good for the world. And so when you take those kind of things and run it through the funnel like Headspace is, I do think one of , the best, companies like just period and, you know, it's hard to argue when the, the vision of the company has improved the health and happiness

of

the world I mean, like that is, you know written on the wall , and that to me was one of those like, oh, wow, like this feels, this feels great. Like if

it's

different than call of duty.

different than call of duty, definitely different from call of duty.

and when in this journey, did you end up deciding to start a nonprofit? Cuz that's actually, it's harder than I think a lot of people think to actually set up a

it's very hard. And I went down so many, rabbit holes that ended in a brick wall where I didn't had no idea what I was doing, but, you know, I'd go on walks all the time with my dog around here.

And when C first hit, I was just walking all the time. Cause that was all you can really

do. , but as I was starting to figure out, okay, , what is gonna be my response to this? What do I want to do that I think could either drive impact or, or just play a part in whatever's going on.

Um, I became more and more exposed to the, digital divide in the sense that, you know, you would see these articles of kids going to taco bell for wifi or, you know, , going to their schools parking lot, just to do their homework instead of being at home. And so I got the idea , for rework, rework is set up to essentially close the digital divide by getting those tech companies that have these beautiful campuses, beautiful offices that they're not using in helping facilitate it to communities of color, vulnerable communities who can actually use that.

And so, you know, . One of the best things that really helped set off the nonprofit was, I was going on a listening tour trying to figure out, Hey, is this an actual thing? And, uh, one of the first companies I was talking to was Twitter.

And, you know, Twitter came out very early and said, we're remote for the foreseeable future. , as I was talking to them about it, they instantly said, well, we're not going back into the San Jose office. Can we donate the whole San Jose office to you? And I was like, uh,

yes,

I

 I had no idea what I was gonna

do and and

how I was gonna do it.

 my intention was to start off with laptops and monitors and wifi equipment. They had all of that, but they also had chairs and desks and pedestals and all

these different

things or

whatever, which which I which I had, scrambled a lot to, to get this happening, but, , the end result was essentially, 5 52 foot semi trucks of stuff from the Twitter office going to a nonprofit that we actually support through the concrete rose foundation, called digital nest.

And now it outfits one of their tech centers in Salinas, California.

That's so perfect. So keep going and tell me about the concrete rose foundation

Yeah. So, uh, , we set up this model where the concrete rose, the fund is all about driving returns. do think some of the investments will drive impact, but it's not explicitly set up to drive impact where we wanna drive impact is through a foundation that we set up in tandem, where we actually, as, GPS pledge, 50% of our carry to that foundation to then make grants to, you know, nonprofits and organizations that are doing things like.

 Getting more black and brown folks into stem or helping, you know, with that talent pipeline to get 'em to more tech companies. And so we, very much believe that the foundation arm is a way where we're gonna either one place a candidate at a company who then can go on to, , start their own company or do something amazing.

Or what we're gonna do is have some of our founders wanting to go support and mentor some of the, people within the, foundation. And so, you know, we, really drive home this idea of a virtuous

cycle And, I think, , maybe 50% is a, is a, is a high number.

But we we we wanted to do that as a look.

. We think we can be successful in the. And if we were able to do that, 50% is actually, you know, , what's fair in that regard. So

 yeah, 50% is

really, uh,

 motivating in, in a way too.

Yeah.

Um, I tend to ask people,like what we like in high school, like, this mission driven work, I'd love to know about like, has it always been from center for

you

it's So it definitely has been front and center. And I feel like I have, been fortunate enough to get a lot of that from my mom and from, family who, you know, we've grown up in predominantly white spaces and I'm either the only one or one of a few that , are in that space.

And it was always this idea of, you know, How do you make sure that you don't just get sucked into that environment, but you're constantly giving back to the communities that you came from or who, you know, look like you, who are going through the same things as you. I would say that was probably, just before business school, where I started to work with an organization called year up, , where, you know, their whole tagline is talent is equally distributed. Opportunity is not Michelle Obama actually talks about this in her book.

She's been in some of the, biggest rooms, heads of states, like the biggest companies. It's like, no, one's that smart. Like everyone kind of has , the thing, if they want to, you know, some people have , that talent, some people have that work ethic, but either way it can be done.

And it's not just because of the school you went to or where you're working. And so, because I believe that talent is equally distributed opportunity is not, I think, how can I be a better conduit of bringing about that opportunity?

But, um yeah it's it's I have a my, my sister and I are, close in age, close in proximity.

She's in, she's in LA also. And we often just talk about , we are very fortunate. We have loving, family, like great upbringing. And we are constantly just trying to figure out ways to, to give back.

well, what's your reputation in the family.

Yeah

Uh, I mean, Kirby Kirby, my sister is, definitely the, the smart, hardworking one. Wow.

Wow.

Always was going on. Uh, I don't even know if she ever saw a B in, , in her life, but, um I, I would say. I definitely am more of the, patient one in the sense of, you know, growing up, with my mom and sister being the only guy, there for a bit, there would always be these moments where I'm like, okay, so I guess we're gonna go do this again.

And like, yeah, I guess I can go join you on this, this excursion. , but yeah, I Def I definitely think I would be either the, the patient one. And then, despite having probably like the worst joints in the family, between knees and in Achilles that like, I, I'm probably the one who, who likes to dance the, the most.

So that's a good one.

So, uh, do not come near me on a, on a dance floor.

my

husband jokes. He's a much better dancer, but I'm, um, much more enthusiastic

and sometimes that's all it

takes Yeah.

Yeah um, any good advice that you've gotten that's really stuck with you,

Um, this was, uh, advice.

So the mutual mentor of, Sean and I is, this guy, Jeff, and he, he gave me some of the best advice, , that I feel like I've been referencing more and more to, to either mentees or, or friends, but it's , never run away from an opportunity. I always run toward an opportunity,

which

I think in this, as people are starting to move and change jobs and figure out , where to go, there's always this thing of like, ah, I just wanna get out of this place.

Oh, I don't really like it really, what you should be thinking about is like, where do you want to go? And what's the best way for you to get there. And I think I've really there's just been so much transition for people. Sometimes it's, easy to, jump ship. I do think it is beneficial to spend more time thinking about what is the direction that you're trying to go.

And then the, the one thing that I, this is, this is gonna be way too, head Spacey

of of a thing but it was it's the, the thing that, Andy said that will always stick with me, especially being in LA, he was always like, you're never sitting or stuck in traffic. You are the traffic.

And that was one of those things where , anytime I'm sitting in, like on the 4 0 5 or sitting in, traffic, I constantly think like everyone is trying to get to where they're trying to go. the honking. Isn't gonna change it. The speeding, cutting people off is not gonna change it. You are the traffic.

 Like, you have to be in the flow and you have to go with it. And like, that, that to me is, is another one where, and maybe this is where the patient thing comes in. Is I just, I think it just, it, it really like centers you and, and calms you down a little bit. So,

I like

it

Um

What's your mental game when you're playing ping pong, like let's say that you're serving or something. Like,

what are you

telling yourself?

Well, so it's, it's actually probably the, the opposite of which you were getting at. I'm a defensive player,

like through and

through

you're the

wall.

I am the wall in the sense that when I was in China, I was living very close to a ping pong hall, , would play there all the time with friends.

But, , I did work up the courage one time to go there's the Japanese national team was playing there and they would practice there and I would just go and like play with them. I would get destroyed every time, but I'm so used to people just slamming the, the ball. Yeah

That like, I, typically just like to play a defensive game and then, do put a fair amount of spin on it.

And so , I very much am more of, again, this patient thing I'm starting to learn is, is a thread is a thread for me. But, yeah, a lot of people get annoyed playing

pong with

get

it back

back

Just just get it back.

great. Yeah Well, congratulations so much on concrete rose. I'm really excited for you.

Well congratulations So much concrete roads I'm really excited for you. Oh, thank you. It's it's uh, it's an exciting time for sure. And it is it's just the beginning.

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