Today I am with Shomik Dutta. Shomik is a managing partner at Overture, a climate tech and sustainability fund that helps startups navigate government and regulatory complexity. Before starting Overture, many in LA know Shomik as the founder of Higher Ground Labs, a political tech fund investing in startups to strengthen democracy in the U S.
Shomik also worked for president Obama and in private equity in the energy sector. I would love to start with the early days of you working with, I believe then Senator Obama.
Yeah. I started much to my Indian father’s chagrin, working for governor's races and Senate races and kind of hacking around you know, started in high school. And then through college, my junior summer, I took one break to do Lehman brothers investment banking. And my dad was like, Shomik, you’ve made it, that's it.
That's a career Lehman brothers. Dad is a bank that forever bank. And I hated it. I was terrible at it. And. , had an offer to go work for a governor Martin O'Malley, who was then mayor running for governor and that decision weighed on me and even weighed on my dad even heavier. And I decided to go with O'Malley of course, Lehman brothers famously collapsed.
And what's your dad's background.
my dad, uh, born in a village in India with no nothing. First in his family to go to college, to IAT corrupt border, which is incredibly hard to get into an India. Graduated when he was 15, then announces to his village that he wants to go to America and everyone loves. He had a brochure from bowling green university.
He had heard of Syracuse university and heard of Harvard. So he applied to all three gets into Harvard business school. you have to guarantee your loans and his family didn't have enough money to guarantee the loans. And so his friend from college two years ahead of them guaranteed as loans, personal.
And they both went to HBS that friend's name was RG Jane who became the number two at Berkshire Hathaway. And my dad worked as a security guard at night at HBS. One of his jobs was if you'd have to check in at the cadavers in the med school and came up and built himself an unbelievable career in America, raised three kids.
And every day, like every day, You have to do?
better than I did, you know, like pushing us to these remarkable, remarkable story.
Okay, so bring it back to you. What happened next for you after governor O'Malley.
Next set of decisions was a very early offer from Hillary Clinton's presidential race. And I talked my way into Barack Obama's fledgling presidential operation. And my dad again, was like, show, make Hillary Clinton. That's the one. Uh, and I probably look back on both decisions having escaped, disaster Taking a job with Barack Obama when he was a Senator with about 10 staff, I ran the mid Atlantic region.
I was just a fast talking punk fundraiser, but it was the best experience I'll ever have in my life. Probably the best job I'll ever have, the closest friends I've ever made in my life. And it's funny, like, you know, we're all in our twenties and. I would meet Kennedy people in Clinton, people that couldn't stop talking about the sixties and the nineties.
And I was like, man, you know, move on. Life is, life has moved on. And now I realize I am, uh, yet another guy that can't stop talking about the best days of my life.
, but still it is shaped a lot of where you are today. So I think it is relevant still. What were you doing when there were 10 staffers and he was a Senator sort of the underdog center.
We would drive around in a sob and we would beg our way into people's homes. Then do you know, 30% fundraisers? No one thought we had a shot, but the thing I really, I think the thing, all of us that. We're early enough came to appreciate it was that anything is possible in this country. And huge change, is possible still today.
And it takes a lot of conviction. It takes a lot of organization. It takes a lot of discipline and it takes time. I love the bill gates quote, where he says everyone overestimates, what they can accomplish in one year and underestimate what they can accomplish in 10 years. And I think of that a lot in the context of.
What's possible in politics, what's possible in business, what's possible, uh, , in social movements. And so that was a front row seat for me as a 20 something year old, you know, shithead kid to be able to witness, , that kind of transformation and what it meant , on a social scale.
And then of course, in 2016, what erasing a lot of that felt like to.
Totally. Any great like Obama anecdotes from those early days that just really stood out for you.
Well, for me, it was always the mixture of highbrow and lowbrow moments because we were 20 somethings, you know, still getting drunk, after a long day. And Obama did try to fire me three different times early on because I, all the fundraising books I'd read were on Rahm manual and, you know, grew up kind of admiring that.
Style of tenacity. And so I was taught you curse at people, you yell at them, you punch through and you get what you need to get done. And I would didn't know better. And so I didn't know like who Obama's friends were. I was calling people like, you.
know, Marty Nesbitt by accident may yelling at them about checks that they need to write.
And these are like some of his closest friends in world. He was like, who is show meek? we got to get rid of this guy. And my boss Juliana Smoot , would have my back. And then my favorite sort of anecdote was in the summer of 2007. When we were getting our asses kicked down like 40% in national polls.
I raised 1.5 million in one night and Obama and we rode home together. We always dropped them off in DC at the end of the night. And he turned around and go show me, he would always ask me to begin the fundraiser, like who do I need to apologize to her and be like, well, there's like a budget easier. And he like wheels around at the end of there.
And he's like, show me, keep doing what you're doing. I'll keep apologizing. This is where the, kind of connected, but. To me winning that primary was more meaningful than any other election I did with him, whether that was the general in oh eight or the general and 12 , beating Hillary Clinton.
Um, when the odds were kind of stacked against us was a really special memory for me still today.
So in the next you became a west wing staffer and I wanna ask, because of course the political work you did is super relevant to the investing work you're doing now out of overture. . Yeah. Mostly delivering coffee to people, but yeah,
Yeah, no, I read that on your LinkedIn. It said coffee with a smile, but can you just share a little bit more about what the west wing was actually like? I think that Aaron Sorkin show, which inspired like an entire generation of people, including myself to do it was like, oh, glitzy looking people and you move fast and talk fast. And the reality is it is the most brutal, crushing all enveloping work. I've ever seen. I was an administrative assistant who didn't touch any of the serious stuff, but I've really close friends who did touch very serious things.
And I watched them age and the stress or bear down on them. And now that I have. It's really remarkable. The amount of sacrifice that people around the president make to serve in that job. I mean, like, I cannot imagine having kids doing the kind of hours and the kind of work they did where, you know, the hardest decisions in the world end up on his desk and the people that support him have to help him make a good decision every single day and is just an astonishing amount of stress, time focus.
, and it's something that still, you know, people in the private sector, startups are fast and all encompassing. But respectfully, I've never seen, work and, stress like I've seen, for Westbank staff,
Hmm. And so we're fast forwarding through your life a little bit, but now you're helping climate startups work with government. well, yeah, so overtures a, new, early-stage venture fund investing in climate. We're investing with the purpose of reducing the amount of atmospheric concentration of CO2. And we think that. The us government right now is kind of akin to where it was before it entered world war two. Sometimes it's hard to get the us government's attention until literally bombs go off.
And I think if you think about our history, you know, Europe was begging the United States to get involved. It was dragged, kicking and screaming , and it wasn't until bombs went off that America's quickly shifted all the means of its production to a wartime footing.
And when America finally got involved, it dwarfed all of the military production might have the collective allied forces and turn the tide of the war. Um, and I think similarly, we're in a space right now where. Far out, paced us in regulatory environment, in pricing carbon in engendering, this sort of, , new technological innovations we need, but bombs are going to go off soon enough, but we are seeing it in wildfires.
We're seeing it in historic storm for seeing it in droughts. And as those bombs go off, I think we are soon to see the U S government shift its focus and will quickly shift all the means of society to value low carbon and negative carbon products, which will outperform economically. So I think.
Investing in climate thematically is both the emergency. We know it to be, but also the largest economic opportunity I'm aware of in our lifetime. I think it is a multiple of the Tams that we're seeing in software right now. And that's creating a lot of opportunity, a lot of the most talented employees and people in the world right now want to focus on this. The one piece of interdisciplinary cooperation that's missing, I think is between folks that really understand government and regulatory dynamics and early stage innovations that we need to hit our net zero emissions targets.
And here the government has so much, it wants to do already as a matter of past law from the infrastructure. That has passed from California's proposed climate budget that Newsome has put forward with a $32 billion budget. There is so much money, attention, regulatory, rulemaking that can shape these outcomes.
and how do you think the U S mobilizes, like, as in, are there certain agencies that are really important? Like when you're looking at your work, what is it that you guys are actually doing?
Yeah. Well, it's funny that, you know, a lot of. I think two big, ironically, I sort of caution companies that say think small, think granular, think of rightful shots. Don't think of the big swings. Don't think of changing 45 Q, which is a tax exemption for carbon removal technologies, because that requires an act of Congress, acts of Congress.
They are a bit of an act of God, instead. Think about rifle shots in the form of there is past law right now, $330 billion coming for climate in the past infrastructure bill, how can you access that? What are the non-dilutive grants that are available to you today in different agencies and within different states?
What are ways you can shape executive rulemaking on issues that are specific to you? what are ways you can access government facilities, access? Low cost capital grants and loans from the department of energy and department of transportation. So specific to your question, I think the three agencies and the executive branch that are most relevant to climate companies are the department of energy, the department transportation, and the department of agriculture.
Those three are the three sort of twin giants. And, my partners in this work at overturn boundary stone has an unbelievable slate of the executives that work across those three agencies in particular,
And so when we invest in a company. You get unfettered access to boundary stone as though you're a paying client, which is our pitch. So if you're a founder out there working on climate, you know, we are open for business. We are writing checks and we'd love to talk to you.
So, let me talk about boundary stone for a second. So got some. So the companies you work with, they get to be kind of a client of boundary stone and value shown. Can I call them a lobbying?
Yeah, there are government strategy and loving firm founded by Brandon curl, bud who lives in LA, who should have on at some point, who is one of my best friends. He was an early Obama staffer as well. Uh, ran the department of energy under Steve to, uh, and today has about 40 full-time employees in his firm.
Bi-coastal working with 95 plus of the most exciting climate companies, , on government affairs stuff.
Hmm. And so, I mean, it's sort of about what is a lobbying firm. But, I mean, do they then work with the department of energy on regulatory changes?
Yes, all of the above, they will help write applications for the problem. You know, it's the department of ed has $60 billion in a loan program that today that it wants to deploy into projects. Uh, and so a lot of, you know, venture investors get, kind of, teary-eyed even thinking about the sort of cap ex intensive projects required.
To move some of this stuff forward, but the reality is the government's a great partner in helping you access ultra low cost capital, uh, you know, off balance sheet, , project level financing that can help accelerate the deployment of some of this exciting new technology. So, um, that's exactly what boundary stone is doing, right.
Then a good example of this brand. , introduced me to relativity space early on in their, in their going and we both invested in that company. Brandon helped Tim Ellis, a CEO of relativity space testified before the Senate space committee that helped build a relationship with Senator Nelson, which in turn led to relativity space accessing the state.
Space facility in Mississippi, $250 million space facility as a first of its kind public private lease agreement between a privately held company and the U S government. And it's stuff like that, which can transform the arc of a early stage company. That's not funded by Jeff Bezos. And so, it's that kind of stuff.
Those rifle shots that I think are very exciting. Laws are passed by Congress and regulations are passed by agencies.
That's right. . Yeah. and have, you know, been investing in climate for the last seven years personally, in this sort of thesis of, you know, Hey, there government's a central block of a movable, granted at the center of everything that's going to happen in climate.
What if an investor could help startups, you know, much in the same way that Bradley tusk helped draft Kings and Uber, um, pure climate focus.
and so let's talk about some of the big things there. Like you mentioned, Europe is pretty far ahead. Price on carbon, you know, is that something that we're going to get here that they have in Europe? You know, what are some of those big things?
I wouldn't hold our breath for a price on carbon
Why not? I don't understand that actually.
Because we have 50 senators that are holding this country hostage. And we have system that has favored small states with radically different, you know, population profiles, demographic profiles, and needs.
But we tax everything.
We have a Senator from West Virginia.
I was personally invested in oil and gas and coal holding, not stitch. And so, you know, I don't see that coming in the near term, the good news. I didn't take a lot of heart. That's public and private markets. Aren't waiting. They're not waiting for the government. And so, you know, you're seeing. Publicly traded companies, making advanced market commitments for covering removal.
You're seeing them voluntarily start taking actions like the five largest steel companies in the world just said, we are going to only procure a green steel, by a certain date. And we're going to set targets for each year to do so. Now maybe that's a function of corporate largest in a low interest rate environment and that'll change,
But the voluntary commitment. Companies are making right now, shareholders are making CEOs, employees, customers it's really astonishing, you know, public and private, companies, but also pension funds and major capital allocators as well. and let's bring in the rest of your background because you moved on and became an investor in physical energy plants. So maybe tell me about where we are in our move to renew. Yeah. It, you know, when I started looking at solar, costs were. 20 X higher than they are today. is a remarkable, , logarithmic drop in pricing and it's just unlocked so much opportunity in wind and solar today. Wind and solar are. Significantly cheaper than that gas and hydrocarbon competition in energy generation.
And, , it shows no signs of abating. And interestingly, lithium ion batteries are following an exact same. You could map , the precipitous drop those costs. One-to-one. And so, , the implications I think are. What happens when you load this much variable energy onto a grid today's grid was designed for a very different energy system.
And so Someone wrote recently that climate is going to create the mother of all CapEx opportunities, you know, four to 5 trillion in CapEx required to upgrade the grid itself, change the centralized aging infrastructure. And what are the ways that we're going to have technology take advantage of ultra low cost, nearing a margin cost of zero of electricity that is coming for us.
What are creative ways you can use that and utilize that for cement production for Bitcoin mining, for, you know, new data centers. And while the venture asset class is not.
built for the mother of all cap ex I do think innovations that utility companies and other players can then scale is an interesting question. And generally, you know, venture capitals are shied away from utilities because of their slow sales cycles, their aging dinosaurs. But if you believe that everything in the world is going to get electrified in the near future, then these publicly traded utility companies become the Exxon.
Uh, and shells of the future. And so being able to, you know, sell them Pyxis and axes to help understand print intelligence, to be able to understand what's happening in D distributed energy generation, how to load balance, how to plan effectively for when there's cloudy days and low wind days becomes a really interesting opportunity.
I have a start-up to send you, So is a, is all, is a lot of the new energy production that's coming online now coming from variable sources.
No, there's a lot of, you know, there's an interesting book called electrified by Saul Griffith that I recommend everyone that wants to learn about this stuff, but solid, very neatly lays out. The simple land constraints in the United States would not afford us to be able to use solar and wind alone.
There's simply not?
enough land. And so the need to find from. 24 7, , renewable power in the form of nuclear, or even geothermal a technology that's been around , since the civil war. There's going to be a lot more of that in residential applications, in commercial and industrial applications and in grid scale, applications.
Hm. How does geothermal work?
You are taking a temperature differential, and you can use that temperature differential to spin a turbine take steam from the core of the earth. but, the, , amount of. Capacity of energy that we will need over the next hundred years, The United States alone has something like four X, the energy needs, but as you've models for population increases in developing world we're going to need something like 50 times the electricity generation that we have today to be able to electrify everything and, sustain the world. many people believe that geothermal is actually the only truly renewable form of, power that can sustain that kind of, uh, load.
And I guess the final stop in your career journey was in energy storage. I assume that's still something you're focused on. Yeah. I mean, you know, when the sun doesn't shine and the wind stops blowing, we're going to have needs and that's, , still one of the most complicated. , problems facing society today. And so, uh, we've made one bet in storage, in a company called Ventura, which is aimed at heavy industry
And so if you're running. you know, paper and pulp manufacturer and have zero downtime means you can't power your plant for more than a couple hours, with lithium-ion unless you stack an unbelievable amount of lithium-ion together. And so this company and Torah, has designed to, novel battery technology.
And so applications like this, I get quite excited about.
where you're not waiting for utility. You're not waiting for government. There's ready and eager clients in heavy industry that have storage needs today that are realizing that the grid is going to get increasingly unstable.
Those Texas blackouts are just a preview for what's coming for the rest of the country. I think as you load this much variable power into the grid, and they're going to be soon pushed off of. They're hydrocarbon dependencies, and I'm going to look for ultra low cost solutions Sweet. How much should we all be worried about what you said just now about expecting more blackouts and is that because the grid is sourcing more variable power?
Yeah, there's a great book called the grit that I recommend to everyone. And, It is as though, the early innings of the inner. We're all entirely dependent on, , the, old telepany system and weren't able to build a new fiber broadband, , infrastructure
And that's kind of the transition we're going to go through in the grid right now. We are sort of in the old innings of. , ancient Tiffany and are now realizing that we have a two way sort of distributed system that needs a radically different infrastructure profile. And so that upgrading transmission is going to be a $2 trillion upgrade over the next 10 years, according to many estimates.
And so without that, , I think you're going to see a lot more mini grid starting to develop where people are going to have to detach and share power with their neighbors. They're going to have to have rooftop, solar and batteries. Their own electric vehicles are going to have to send power back to the homes, you know, the Ford F-150 lightening is the equivalent of four Tesla power walls, uh, sitting in many people's driveways now.
And so even in the Texas blackouts, many people were sort of heavily dependent on their electric vehicles for power. And so, , all of this is a looming crisis for us
I think like water. Most Americans take electricity for granted and don't spend a second thought about it. And when we drive past our substations, they're just sort of ugly eyesores that don't take up much of our.
brain power. but like water, we're going to have to really spend time on making sure that electrons can flow.
, as we radically ramp up the amount of capacity we're going to need.
So do you think some of that goes to private companies to step in and private enterprise in the like forming many grids? Like, is that something that we need to wait for the regulated utilities to do for.
We're starting to see it happening right now. And the regulatory, overlay into this is quite interesting. I don't know if anyone has been following this net metering fights that are happening right now, but it's an example of. What happens when you have panels on your roof, what rate does a utility owe you?
, when you dispatching power back through the grid, or just not taking power from the grid and expensive times. And the, a lot of the public utilities commissions, uh, have been coming down on the wrong side of this. And it's interesting how this does not really fall neatly down on partisan lines.
And here in California, we are going to deal with a very nasty, uh, net metering fight in which the California PUC make come down on the wrong side of this, and actually punish homeowners who have, solar on the rooftops.
I don't quite understand.
You know, uh, the California PUC is running a poor process.
We're seeing. Generally in climate right now where, you know, we read a lot about coal workers every day. There's only 50,000. Co-workers in this country. There's four times the number of solar workers. And yet the coal industry is hyper mobilized and very vocal and asserting itself on the process. And you don't see enough of the renewable industry.
You know, counteracting that stuff.
So thus the need for something like a boundary stone
I think generally. Too many folks in technology. And particularly, I think Silicon valley mindsets are like government is something to be avoided, move so fast that you can ask for forgiveness, not for permission, you know, move fast and break things. And I think that's just, that's not the reality in climate.
If you are working on a transmission distribution innovation, you can't ask the FERC, for forgiveness, you have to ask for permission quite literally. And so a lot of these innovations. , I think we'll need a considered area that can help them, you know, think about this the right way. but the Tams are so large that it is worth the patients.
So I'm generally not a patient person and VC is not good at patients. So how do you think about timelines?
Well, again, you know, I counsel companies to go small You know, I think there's so much more that can be done on a hyper-local level and municipalities and state governments than can be often done at the federal level.
And so starting small. Proving something with a marquee pilot in a city that is interested in the innovation and then scaling that from there is a much better way to go than waiting in line forever at a federal agency. generally states are becoming such interesting testbeds
Okay. So count me as inspired. What do you say to people that say they want to get into climate, but they're intimidated about making a career change.
I think that. Everyone is going to have to lock arms and engage in what we'll see is going to be the, , struggle of our lifetime is to ensure that. Life as we appreciate it on earth is able to exist for the next a hundred years.
And that it means that everybody needs to come with their toolbox to the fight. the inspiring thing is there's a lot of interdisciplinary cooperation that has to happen today. And so the reality. I am a early stage investor. I deeply understand government and politics. I just brought what I had to the effort.
And similarly, you're seeing data scientists. You're seeing synthetic biology experts. You're seeing, designers, you're seeing, machine learning engineers. Everyone is bringing what skills they have and there is an application for everyone because the reality is every industry on earth is going to have to shift.
To a totally decarbonized future in order to go from 50 gigatons of emissions per year to zero over the next couple of decades. And when you think about that thematically, that is such an astonishing opportunity and it needs every single skill set. There is a use case for you that world. And so I think being very honest about what you're very good at and doing it in the same way that you would in your own careers, is the way to get started. And there's a couple of great books I can recommend. I think John door's speed and scale bill gates is how to avoid a climate disaster. And the project drought on books are really good, three starting points,
And so there's just an astonishing amount of energy and Goodwill here to educate folks that?
want to learn more. a lot of the smartest investors I know have said that this kind of reminds them of the earliest days of the internet, where it was clear that, you know, digitalization and software would eat the world.
And I think similarly de-carbonization is such a theme that is going to eat the world. And so there is room for everyone with every skillset.
When you talk about it sort of eating the world, do you have other parts of that vision you can paint for just how things look 10 years from now say,
Yeah, I think, um, something like. I'm going to get this number wrong, but it's something like 80% of the steel and aluminum production today is used making coal.
Imagine the Tam of there's about four or five companies right now, imagining green steel and using a source of heat apart from coal. What is the Tam for amount of steel? You're going to need a friend of mine said that might as well put a slide of the earth. Um, pretty good capture.
I think. the way we've consumed in this country has been everything you want at the push of a button in an instant. And, I think a lot of our consumer habits are going to shift over time. I don't think anyone going to give up meat anytime soon, but we are going to have. You know, look at genetically breeding cattle differently so that we reduce methane emissions. And we have to look at not optimizing for weight, but optimizing for their Berks. And belches, , wildfire management and just sort of climate resiliency itself, I can go on and on, but I mean, I, you know, , I think the quick shortcut here is that, , Every major mature industry that has trillions of dollars at stake every year is going to have to completely, re-imagine how they do things.
And as every venture capitalist, an entrepreneur knows mature industries are not the best at inventing new ways of doing things. And so there is a role that a very catalytic role for early stage founders, , and just investing wise, you're investing in these, early seeds seed stage companies. Tell me a little bit, give me some of the, more of the basics of.
Yeah. So our average check is a million bucks. We invest in the pre-seed to the series B. We invest wherever we think we can make the most money and have the most impact on a founder who needs our help. And so, , we only co-invest alongside top tier funds. We will not lead our own rounds, we think in the capital stack, it is very valuable to have a government conciliary area that can solve problems for you,
And, um, little bit more about you. so shimmy, You know, give me the dynamics of sort of the role that you're playing at overture. You're one of the founders. I mean, I often say how do friends describe you, but, um, you know, what's kind of the dynamic at overture.
Well, when I started, you know, overdrive three objectives, which was to work with my closest friends, have a shitload of fun and invest in climate.
Those are amazing three objectives. Was it hard though, to leave higher ground and political? So maybe I can say it's like in a hole we did at higher ground labs, we were an early stage incubator and accelerator for political technology, startups with an objective of kind of modernizing the technology stack in the democratic party. Um, I'm pretty dispirited about politics. It's just like, you know, especially after Obama was such a.
Unbelievable through wind at our backs. , I was so proud to be a part of it. And when I look at the state of politics today, it's just, it's like draining. It's like a bummer. , you know, there's a lot of finger pointing and yelling and name calling and I it's, it's depressing, but , the most depressing thing to me is that there's a good corner of this country right now that does.
Believe in the democratic process anymore.
And you know, for those of you that haven't read the Ray Daleo book on how empires rise and fall, um, it's, uh, it's kind of startling, , historical.
View of what happens in aging empires and how a lot of AGM pyres ended up collapsing and violence due to internal strife in high inflation environments. Like we're a, and so. The way out, I think is heavy investment in education and innovation. Those are the two things that can carry us through moments like this.
I think a lot of the negative externalities of our society are now. The biggest investment opportunities. And so whether that's loneliness, whether that's inequality, whether that's mental health, whether that's climate, , or democracy itself, all of those are in urgent need of some reimagination.
And so I think, I hope a lot more founders are sort of pulled in those directions to help us use technology, to reimagine these things because. I want to unleash capitalism on these as solutions. I'm kind of a techno optimist in that way, I guess. , what's your take on where the bounds of what capitalism can and can't solve on some of these problems?
Well, I mean, I keep seeing the private enterprise more efficient than public enterprise and you see, you know, if I can't get my passport back or figure out how to navigate government services, but of Amazon we're running it, I feel quite sure that I'd get it in same day delivery, you know?
Yeah. There's some, I might be in 1994 where they just, they open with, the government realized technology companies could run government better than it could itself. And so they just turned over the means a conference, these technology companies.
Well, I, I do definitely think we need to push ourselves to support government rather than complain, but shame. How did you become mission driven and how do you think about that in your life? Well, I think , we all want to leave the world a little gentler and a little better than we found it and Really having. No intensified that for me more than anything. And there's a great book called the uninhabitable planet that I recommend to everybody that wants to learn a little bit more about climate and in it, there's this line of, you know, our kids will look us in the eye one day and say, you knew this was coming.
And what did you do about it? And that was a haunting line for me. . And so, you know, I think all of us are going to be called to do something soon. , and you know, the reality is that if we continue on abated today, there will be.
Over a billion people that live within 50 miles of the equator that will not be able to live there anymore. And imagine kind of social and people results. When billions of people have to migrate to other places, think about the violence, the social unrest, the potential collapse of civilizations.
Really powerful. anything else on overture? I'm sort , wrapping up. A lot of my questions. Are there big things we missed here?
Yeah, I mean, I just think of us please, for those listening that are venture capitalists, think of us as a valuable cone investor that can solve problems that most investors don't spend much time thinking about. And I think at the seed and series a, a lot of companies. I don't have the cash to go spend on expensive lobbyists or on full-time employees.
And so this is where we can engage and be most helpful well, fantastic. I mean, to me, for obvious, obvious reasons, I hope you, um, wish you huge success.
Many thanks for having me on good to see you.