mike_palank

Mike Palank — MAC Ventures

Wednesday, May 25, 2022

MAC is a $100m fund writing $500k – $1.5m checks. David and I didn’t talk much because Mike had so many great stories.  He tells us about his partners Adrian Fenty, Marlon Nichols, Charles King and some of the cool stuff in interactive media today.

 
… makes our podcast guest list look a little dry
 

 

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I’m so ready. So ready. All right. I’m excited. Today we have Mike Palin from Mac ventures. Mike has had a long career in the entertainment industry before becoming a partner in ventures in 2017. M joined forces with cross-cultural ventures in 2019 to create Mac. Welcome Mike. Thank you. Excited to be here. We’re excited to have you. Let’s start off by telling us a little bit about Mac and what you do. Sighs. Stuff like that. Sure.

So as you said Mac represents a combination of two pre-existing venture practices and ventures and cross culture. We came together at the beginning of this year. It’s an amazing partner a partnership of just an incredible group of differentiated people in venture and I’ll get to that later. But the basics of Mac is that we are one hundred million dollar early stage fund. Writing checks up to one point five million. We target 10 percent ownership in the deals that we go after. It’s not a mandated thing but that’s that’s our target.

We’ve written checks as small as 450 and checks up to one point five. You know in terms of sector focus we’re technically sector agnostic but we lean into the areas where we have outsized experience. What we’d like to say is we invest in what we know what we know we know better than anyone else. And as we’ll get into later I’m sure you know the background in entertainment and politics and enterprise investing that me my team have sort of dictates the areas where we invest a lot. And I can get into some specifics and then geography you know we are based here in Los Angeles and we are also based up in the Bay Area.

My partner Adrian Fenty is up in the Bay Area and I have a partner Alison Donato who is in the city. So we see a lot of deal flow from Northern and Southern California. The majority of our companies are in California but we have companies that are outside the United States and companies on the East Coast and in the Midwest. We’re looking for amazing entrepreneurs everywhere.

Great. See you mentioned Adrian Fenty who I know is one of your partners but also of course I know him as the former mayor of D.C. for sure was featured in Waiting for Superman. If I’m not mistaken. Very much so very much so. So you like to invest in what you know. Tell us more about your partners are what your backgrounds are. Sure and what you know.

So prior to Mac there was an ventures and cross culture ventures and cross culture ventures. Was Troy Carter and Marlon Nichols. Troy Carter is probably best known for being the music manager to Lady Gaga and Meghan Trainor and John Legend. But he was also a very senior executive at Spotify and most recently has started his own full stack music company called Q and A Marlin was coming out of Intel Capital where he had spent five years. He was actually responsible for the launch of their diversity fund which at the time was the biggest diversity fund in the world and that has informed our strategy at Mac.

But Marlon was coming out of Intel and looking to start his own fund and was looking for a partner. And actually I think I was introduced to Troy to discuss him coming on as a potential LP and I think when Troy heard the pitch decided wait a second we should we should do this together and they formed cross culture in 2015. And like M we’re investing in early stage companies. They were about a 15 million dollar fund. That’s one has done extraordinarily well they are a top decile performing fund. So kudos to the Cross Culture Team across cultural was also Suzi Roux who joined Troy at Q and A and Danny Brown is now working with us on the Mac side.

So when they were coming up on the end of their first fund at the end of last year Troy wanted to do something entrepreneurial and knew that he wouldn’t be a part of cross culture fund too. And so more than was looking for new partners. And that’s when we started discussing Mack and it became really clear very quickly that this was a really really cool coming together of interesting and like minded people.

So we just this I said Troy and Susie went to start Q and A. Correct. So they weren’t doing a second cross culture fan right. And Marlin then joined you and what are you doing together right guys joined together.

By the way I think I’m the probably less well-known these famous of my three other partners. They’re all very illustrious people and I’m totally happy with that.

But after this podcast is look out.

So my partners at m are two amazing individuals. We’ll start with Adrian since we mentioned him Adrian was the fourth mayor of Washington D.C. That’s his hometown. Prior to becoming mayor he was two term city council. Yeah he was very motivated by by education that he believes that changing changing someone’s quality of education early on in life can really have a force multiplier effect on the quality of their life down the road. And as a politician he worked really hard to improve the level of education for young people in that city.

And I think as as you know the movie shows sometimes you know he did things that were controversial but like in the tech world they like to say move fast and break things. He was a move fast and break things kind of mayor and which I think you know ultimately why you know he found such a you know a home in tech and startups and venture but after he left office he started advising a number of startups and eventually ended up meeting Marc Andreessen and Ben Horowitz through his work various startups and they of course were building out their their services team and they were building out a regulatory government vertical and invited Adrian to join them as an advisor kind of working on regulatory issues for their portfolio companies.

So you know he was working on with Lyft as Lyft was expanding into new cities and helping them navigate governments and making introductions to key decision makers in various cities. And he did that for five years. And you know as an advisor there he was able to sit in on literally every investment pitch meeting that the firm took. And so he said he sat in on hundreds of them and got to learn how Marc and Ben and Chris and Jeff and the whole team over there how they evaluated opportunities the questions they asked founders and sort of just learned venture capital by osmosis from some of the smartest people in the world doing it.

And after five years he felt ready to go out and start a fund. And that’s when he approached Charles King and so Charles has an amazing career as an entertainment executive.

I don’t think I’m exaggerating when I say that he is the top African-American executive in the history of Hollywood certainly as a talent agent. I think he’s one of the top executives period regardless of color. But he has made a name for himself as a maverick in this you know one hundred and thirty year old business that historically has been dominated by white men. I was fortunate I left a career as a hedge fund analyst in Chicago where I was investing in a publicly traded small cap tech companies to move to L.A. to start in the mailroom the William Morris Agency in 2004.

And Charles was my first boss and I think he literally might have been the only black person at the William Morris Agency in 2005.

And he at the time was representing people like Tyler Perry Andre Benjamin of outcast right after Hey outcome came out and was the biggest song in the world. He was representing amazing filmmakers DMX all kinds of actors while I worked for him he signed Tyler Perry he subsequently represented Oprah and others but he had this vision of certainly representing the top talent and helping them push their agendas and a white male dominated industry that often didn’t understand what they were trying to achieve but his greater mission and this carries into macro and Mack is driving social impact by changing the way people are depicted on screen changing hearts and minds.

When you put people of color in those roles that are more aspirational or uplifting as opposed to the crack dealer the pimp or whatever you can change the way people see themselves and the way other communities see each other. And it’s very powerful and he’s had a very successful track record doing that and a track record as an amazing dealmaker as an agent.

But he left all that in 2015 to start a company called Macro and macro is a diversified multicultural focused media company that’s focused on making premium film and television content companies probably most well-known for making fences with Denzel Washington a couple of years ago and mud bound. They’ve got Netflix some of its first Oscar nominations they’ve won numerous Oscars and Academy Awards are Academy Awards and Golden Globe Awards. And so I was Charles one of Charles’s first hires in that business we launched it in January 2015 and I was initially focused on digital one of the three lines to my career I think is one I’ve been very early in a lot of things that I’ve pushed forward and two I’ve always been admired in the mire of of tech companies that have disrupted the entertainment industry not just companies but digital creators digital influencers as an agent.

I was signing digital talent before YouTube was even a big thing. So I’ve always been fascinated with that as has Charles. And so when I joined macro when Charles hired me I was running a sort of digital strategy and helping Well what should it. If you were to launch a new media company today obviously you’re going to do film and TV. It’s still the bulk of the business. But what else is out there. In 2015 it was it was the M.C. ends the multi-channel networks the ME CHOOSE THE MAKER studios that were raising a lot of money and getting all the attention.

And we thought about launching one of those and quickly realized as we looked under the hood that while there’s not a great business to the MCU and sure enough they’ve all kind of gone away or been absorbed into bigger media companies. Why is that. Well there just wasn’t. I mean the multi-channel networks were basically like ad networks but instead of you know instead of like a publishing site Are there channels were were influencers and so they aggregated tens of thousands of influencer channels and then we’d go to like Coca-Cola and be like hey instead of trying to figure out which youtube channels to advertise on individually come to us to one media buy and we’ll spread out your ads across a network of 10000 channels and then for the you know the top 1 percent of creators in their network they would help them create more premium content maybe do film and TV deals native brand deals.

It was just a really challenging business model never quite worked out. I mean you know Disney bought Maker Studios for I think you know the deal was up to a billion dollars it was a nice exit for upfront and others but I think looking back it wasn’t a great business for Disney.

And so it was the kind of into this like looming like what do I do it macro if I was the head of digital there’s not a digital business to build that Adrian called us in 2016 and said I’m leaving Andreasen I’m looking to start a fund and I would be interested in doing this with you guys.

And we had done some balance sheet investing at macro writing like 10 to 15 thousand dollar checks into synergistic companies like blankety or Adam tickets. We invested in the African digital company called OMD LMG AMG digital that was the buzz feed of Africa and we enjoyed it and I had started my career as an investor and Charles had been a very active angel investor thanks to pop Rico and others. And so we decided to do this with Adrian and actually formalize our investing activity into a fund.

And that’s when our ventures was born in 2017 and we did too small. We called them proof of concept funds because we weren’t aging had come from Andreasen but none of us were RV’s. We had never done it. We were out there raising money and LP these were like great. We love your backgrounds we love what you all have done in your prior careers but you’ve never done a b c like Show us you can get deal flow show us you can win into competitive deals that you can add value. And so we thought well let’s let’s just do that let’s do that with two small funds.

We found some very supportive peace and we were very active. We invested in 80 companies around two and a half years over two funds now.

But it it ingratiated us into the community. We learned a ton. And so during this time is macro is still running. And you did you guys both leave you and Charles is Charles still at macro.

Charles is still at macro macro is still a very successful and growing business.

We refer to Charles as he is he is a general partner of Mac we call him a special GP but I’d probably most C firms he would just be considered a venture partner because he spends the majority of his time running Mac but he has a very strategic partner and a lot of ways you know he’s incredibly plugged into all areas of Hollywood you know Denzel Washington was supposed to be here with me today but he got called you know he’s on Charles’s speed dial but we have great access to the celebrity talent to executive talent to the agencies as they look out on on CIA we can help them we do as I’ll talk about a lot of investing in the kind of tech and media space and a lot of companies need help navigating this this landscape Hollywood Hollywood’s a very closed community if they don’t know you they’re not calling you back they can waste your time they can take your money and so we act as sherpas to a lot of these companies that need to navigate this ecosystem and few voices I think as well position as we are to do that.

That’s that’s that’s a great great description just for for our listeners. Can you clarify.

Who are the full time keepers at the sure the full time G Ps are Marlin nickels. Adrian Fenty and myself and then in San Francisco we have our partners there are not general partners Allison Dinardo and here we have Danny Brown.

So with with those as the different partners do you all have different areas you focus on and particularly what is your area. What are your areas you like to focus on. Sure.

I’ll go back to you know we invest in what we know and what we know when we feel like we know better than anyone else.

I’ll kind of move away from my areas because I’ll dive a little deeper in a second.

But obviously with Adrian and his background in government and politics we invest in kind of this area that we sort of call it Smart Cities which isn’t perfectly accurate but it’s sort of a broad term to describe any kind of company that it touches upon the way people live. Can you work inside of a city so that can be everything from a micro mobility scooter company to a power infrastructure company. Obviously those those types of companies need to understand how to navigate governments of all level and bureaucracy and red tape. Adrian we know there’s not many mayors maybe no mayors that are doing early stage investing. He’s very qualified to help them navigate those issues as he was doing at Andreasen. So we do a lot of that and that’s sort of his purview.

I would say you know Marlin does a lot of investing in the enterprise space marketplaces commerce direct to consumer. He does a lot of consumer investing. He has a really interesting cultural thesis that’s been guiding him you know since Cross Culture Days which is sort of looking for pop cultural trends that are driving people industries and investing in companies that are sort of either riding the wave or the ones causing that wave. So you know he just did a post a couple weeks ago about the changing nature of being a parent especially as relates to moms and working moms and busy moms and all the implications that that has and opportunities for startups to come in and take advantage of the fact that there are so many working and busy moms out there and dads and the opportunities that that creates a pop culture him just doesn’t mean the number one song on the Billboard charts or the number one movie at the box office.

So ballet means if I’m an entrepreneur approaching Marilyn I want to lead with the trend the wave that I’m writing very much so I’ve learned this.

MARTIN I’m sorry if you’re listening to this but like I know how to get Martin excited by the frame it in a way that is oh this is taking advantage of a cultural trend or is you know is the one developing the cultural trend because that that’s a thesis and a filter that he looks at opportunities through.

And then I would say you know the area that I look at and Charles looks at the most and I’ll probably kind of call it you know new media media media tech but you know going even more specific. And I’d love to dive into some of these but obviously video games video games are not a new concept but you know video games the future video games video games as social networks things like that are super interesting this idea of new sports and new sports can mean EA sports but it can also mean you know new ways to think about or consume existing sports.

So that’s a really interesting area for me and for us interactive content. I think you know what the cable television was to the 1980s 1990s. I think interactive content will be to the 20 20s and beyond. So interactive content giving audience agency in what they’re watching on screens I think is super interesting. You know this area of virtual humans and synthetic synthetic reality I think is incredibly interesting I think my son at some point will follow or admire as many virtual people as he does actual human beings. So we think that’s a really interesting area.

And then like creative markets market networks unlike in creative fields you know Hollywood movies albums have sort of been made TV shows have been made kind of the same way since they were in the 40s 50s 60s. Obviously there’s new technology but it’s a pretty inefficient process and there’s some really interesting companies trying to change the way creative people get together to make creative product from you know a web series all the way up to a feature film. And I think that’s a really interesting area for disruption.

And so looking at companies in that space so I’m really curious about two of the there is the you’ve mentioned games and interactive content games are inherently interactive content. Right. And so what what kind of different interactive content do you think of that’s not a game and what does that look like.

Yeah I mean it’s there’s a spectrum right. And I think you know one end of the spectrum there’s a Candy Crush or you know maybe as you move a little bit towards the right there’s there’s a fortnight or league of legends. You know kind of considered fifa madden you know what you would kind of consider traditional either mobile games or console games or computer games.

But then you get into this area that’s you know our IP but Telltale Games that was a really great company that was making kind of hybrid video games meets a movie kind of playable video games that had narrative storyline scripts things like that. I mean Red Dead Red Dead Redemption it’s almost like a playable movie I mean there are definitely you know gaming storylines but there are a lot more beautiful cutaway scenes. And then as you move even more to the right you know there’s stuff like an amazing company out of the U.K. called Plato that made one of my favorite apps for my kids favorite apps called although HBO and it’s this story it’s basically a playable web series and it’s the story of this young female scientist and her pet avocado sidekick and she is kind of developing this cool technology and she asks Arvo to go gather and do various things and when she’s asking is really asking you and you control although through your mobile phone by kind of drawing lines on the screen having Avatar go walk various places pick up things you get rewards and points as you kind of achieve this.

So you’re sort of you know you’re playing this web series and it’s really well-written and acted and shot but it’s a game and there’s in app purchases and you can dress also by buying certain outfits and it’s a really amazing melding of a web series and a mobile game. And it was just very elegantly done. There’s actually a creator to this for peace medium series where he said you know film schools need to create a whole new curriculum on how we think about developing writing shooting you know lighting editing interactive content playable content because you can’t think of it in the same way that Martin Scorsese thinks about the Irishman and he’s right like we’re in the very early days and people are experimenting but they need to sort of codify these things and start teaching it if it’s really going to blossom.

So do you think that innovation is going to come out of the game people making more content like games or do you think it’s going to come out of the traditional movie and TV industry. I mean we’re seeing me. Videogames have become movies in these game engines you know being used by filmmakers and studios to create whole scenes so it’s happening. But I think what sometimes tech people underestimate or overlook is just the importance of the creative and the narrative in the story. Like all of the text great you know stories is kind of secondary. And alternatively I think you know some of these platforms could be others you know are like well if we get the great content that’s all that matters.

But I do have putting an emphasis behind the tech and the content discovery and taking advantage of the film factor. You know you’re watching the content through you’re totally missing out in content great content is not enough for the future and we talked about you know streaming wars. I do think that streaming wars will be in part won by those people that put a premium on the technology I mean Netflix was first and foremost a technology company. They have an office in Los Gatos and they put their engineers on a pedestal.

The tech people historically at the agency studios me when I was at William Morris the more tech minded people sat in windowless offices in the basement. They were the nerds it was the gut driven instinct. People that were exalted and saying wait the studios you know the tech people were never exalted in the way they should have been.

And I think it’s starting to change.

But one challenge I find as an I think a lot of traditional voices are coming from the tech side of the world not the media content side of the world. I struggle with evaluating content like I agree with what you said which is you can’t have the content being an afterthought. But how do you evaluate whether the content is going to be great.

That’s that’s a challenge.

And I sometimes get into trouble with this with my Hollywood peers. I am more of a data driven analytical person at the agency when I was reading scripts client scripts. I was never quite comfortable giving my analysis because I think this is so subjective or when we had a quote like you know an actress prize for for a role in my well how are you coming to this price and it was sort of like well that’s what he made from his last movie and then he was on this magazine cover and has this many Instagram followers.

So this is going to be his new price just like I don’t get this it’s so subjective. I’m used to like DCF models and you know excel. And that’s why I really admire Netflix and I think they’ve done such a brilliant job at it using data to inform creative decisions but to not dictate them to not paint by numbers but basically to stack the deck in their favor.

By telling you you know this type of content or these themes are resonating or have a higher likelihood of success or this after this director this writer these combination of artists but you still need somebody coming to write the screenplay to direct the movie to act brilliantly but you may see some synthetic actors you’re already seeing a I written screenplays that are like horrendous.

So maybe eventually but I don’t think anytime soon we’re going to see the artistic fields replaced by A.I. or data. 

But yeah I mean I actually know what areas of data I would be mining. So it’s interesting. Yeah mining of course that there’s certain age demographics that the data of the how actors have performed in the past but I don’t actually know the Netflix how they use the data wisely. I’m not exactly sure either.

I do know that they are looking at tons and tons of data points so much so that it will it will sort of dictate the size of budgets in certain genres or for certain projects the data out you know like the Adam Sandler movie has a high likelihood to drive user retention or a new user sign up. So you know you can go and throw a couple hundred million at a few Adam Sandler movies when Hollywood might tell you no way by you know he’s cold he’s washed up like I may remember when they did that that deal with him originally it was sort of like a head scratcher like how they really just did that committed to that money Adam Sandler movies and it’s performed extraordinarily well.

So you know I think the the black box nature of how they use data I mean slowly they’re starting to trickle out how they’re doing it and honestly like just just think about it. If we if we’ve sat here for like two hours and wrote down every single thing that could affect the outcome of a movie like we come up with you know maybe a thousand different data points. That’s a lot but not insurmountable and you start. How do we measure these. How do we weight these like.

I think there’s an interesting way that be looking for companies to write a blog post in the new year about the use of data in historically creative industries whether it’s film and television or beauty in cosmetics or fashion.

I mean these are industries where you know people like Anna Wintour or Karl Lagerfeld these golden god creative geniuses come and say this is what’s going to be popular and boom it happens. And I think that will never go away. I mean how can we not use data in the world that we live in it’s the new it’s the new oil.

I just there’s a lot of room for amazing companies to be built in that space. Yeah I had a chance to work with a famous author a few years ago and this author has had lots of movies made by different studios and I sat in on one of his marketing calls and I was dumbfounded by how little data they had and the fact that he couldn’t have data from movies made by other studios and it was just it was mind boggling. So it seems like mind boggling at that point.

There was a long way to go and exciting because what you can do is just a little bit of effort can give you such an advantage.I think it’s part of the impetus that you know every major Hollywood studio television are going direct to consumer.

They realize the importance of having that direct to consumer access to data to inform a lot of things in their business and direct to consumer as.

As opposed to what are the implications of that. Who’s falling out of the value chain. Yeah.

It’s one of the you know one of the things we’ve noticed is you know Hollywood entertainment business has sort of moved from this wholesale model to a retail model where dismally Disney historically had they had a studio that made shows they sold those shows to let’s say you know effects and effects would air to show but even if facts didn’t sell direct effects was distributed by Comcast or by time warner by these multi video program distributors.

And so no one was going direct really except your cable company who you paid directly and they had that relationship with you. So Disney wasn’t selling direct effects wasn’t selling direct. And now you know the same way when you know when Disney releases a movie through the theaters it’s you know it’s put out through AMC or you know you name the exhibitor they necessarily don’t know who’s coming to their movies.

They don’t know how they felt they don’t know you know where they went that there’s no information it’s given to the exhibitors and exhibitors frankly they’re not tech companies they’re not really using it. So it’s just such a missed opportunity. So now everyone’s going it’s going direct. So it’s like the word Disney we’re gonna make. You know frozen too although it’s pretty bad examples that came out of the theater. But we’ll make frozen three and maybe we’ll put it out theatrically but maybe now will own the theater chain because they’re talking about getting rid of that that decree where studios could known them as maybe Disney or Netflix owns theater chains so they can have that first party relationship or we’ll put it out on Disney plus and we’ll know exactly who’s watching it for how long were they took off where they came back and what they watched after.

And that will inform the types of content they may get from the parks merchandising tours you know cruise ships.

I was going to ask about some streaming is a huge part of that right. That is going direct and having people be able to owning those channels right. Yeah. So what’s going on like in the streaming wars. 

I think lion tree the investment bank said they counted like one hundred and twenty different over the top streaming services that were both subscription and ad supported which is insane. It’s absolutely insane.

What’s amazing to me is that no one really talks about technology. There’s a couple of interesting things that I’ve seen about equity where it suggests that they are putting some thought behind that the tech side of it and not just the content and maybe these are sort of gimmicky right now maybe there’s more of their sleeve but you know the one is the Steven Spielberg show that you can only watch at night. So it will only be locked when sunset sunsets in the city where you’re watching the show which is kind of cool.

You know the phones got a camera you can interact with things like so interactive content. It’s a perfect medium to kind of explore this interactive content medium but no one’s doing that. They’re still serving up the passive lean back you know 20 minute 30 minute experience.

I’m really interested in the different models of interactive content. So like I was just talking with the friend about betting which is a form of interacting right. Like if I’m watching a live for sure.

So what are the when you think about interactive content beyond just you know holding a phone different way or choose your own adventure sort of stuff what do you think about that’s interesting and interactive so I won’t say the company name because they haven’t really announced yet but they’re they’re working on a new format of interactive content that we saw is fairly mind blowing.

But essentially you’ve seen it like the deep take videos and things like that so they can essentially take you know images of an actor a couple of frames or you know maybe a hundred photos of it to be more realistic and they can essentially have and after say or do anything short of having a shoot like you know with band or stash they had to shoot every single branch narrative which can get expensive and time consuming. That’s not scalable. So the Choose Your Own Adventure branching narrative is interesting. It’s great experimentation. But it’s not scalable.

So with the I hate so deep because it has a negative connotation I think it’s a very good side to this kind of A.I. driven technology. But it will allow a studio or a producer or a creative to essentially take an actor or actors or scene and haven’t said you do anything based upon your input.

But yeah it’s funny I always use the example of my son like picking up magazines and trying to swipe everything that everything’s interactive commentary.

You know his expectation is that he has agency and everything that he sort of picks up his media options. So I think as he gets older this idea of like oh interacting with my content it’ll sort of be a desirable thing. I mean sure he’ll want to disconnect and passively watch content but I think he’ll find the idea of affecting the outcome of content through his own engagement participation to be interesting and almost like a requirement in some cases. And so I think it’s stuff like that that people are working on that’s really interesting.

There’s so much here to talk about. I think we go on for for several hours. But I do want to ask about community and you know to me some of these interactive ideas seem very isolating games Mm-hmm.  

You know it’s interesting people have said fortnight is is the new social network and it’s true. I mean some people log on just to talk with each other you know like playing the game is almost a secondary thing. And I think that’s absolutely true. I don’t think the next I mean you we have Tick Talk is kind of like the new social platform of the moment. But I think the next Facebook level social media platform Instagram level will be built either through video game or you know in the metaverse through a virtual environment and that could be 10 years away.

And I don’t think it’s that far away. But I you know but I think I’m really believe that will be the case.

And when these companies come to you whether interactive media or else do you have a certain things are looking for. Yeah.

It’s hard sometimes depending on kind of this specific area of new media. Obviously we we invest in SAS companies we invest in marketplaces and DTC companies and you know you’ve had Brian Lee on and he talked really well about you know what he looks for and we look for those things as well. But you know if you’re coming with an interactive content company are we. We invested in broad which is the company behind little Michela. And we invested pretty early. And yeah I guess we could we could have. We did we did.

We looked at kind of their social media engagement of her and the other characters.

But for us it was it was these types of investments. I mean we do come in early. It’s more about the founder and their vision and sometimes how crazy is that vision and does it all sort of align to the way we see the future playing out. Or is it you know in the case of brought it was like so out there where he’s like Listen you know hundreds of thousands of people that follow the Cardassian and gender clans they’ve never met them like maybe they are virtual do we know that is like a real human being.

Like my only interaction has been through social media television so he’s like Why can’t I create a virtual person follow the same algorithm of celebrity that the Cardassian is and general have followed and build someone up and then sort of what he didn’t like yeah why not. Like you don’t have to be human anymore to be a celebrity to be an influencer. I mean Japan’s always been ahead of us but you know hot Suni Mika who’s a huge pop star over there sold out the Hammerstein Ballroom in New York back to back nights.

She got married as a human being married her earlier this year. She is of Justin Bieber level fame in Japan and she’s not real. So I don’t think people have to be human look out humans because robots are coming, so.

yeah it’s more on on an on team more often in this space in this kind of new media interactive content space. Great. Yeah.

Where can these amazing teams find you. How can they reach you.

You know Mike at venture capital dot com our Web site and Palach one on one on Twitter.

We’re everywhere or in Hollywood we’re everywhere. Come find us please. I love talking about this and meeting companies in this space. It’s just it’s super exciting exciting.

So you’re really knowledgeable about it. Thanks for sharing. This is great.

And just for the record Mike is real.